Wednesday, January 7, 2009

I Have Heard, but Now I See

Is it meant to be an ‘either or’ proposition coming to know the truth of our identity in Christ, as in what came first, the chicken or the egg-hearing verses seeing? What are your thoughts on this?

The first thing that comes to mind on this line of thinking comes out of a prolonged, divine reckoning taking place between God and a man named Job, let’s listen in shall we.
Job answered GOD: "I'm convinced: You can do anything and everything.
Nothing and no one can upset your plans. You asked, 'Who is this muddying the water, ignorantly confusing the issue, second-guessing my purposes?'
I admit it. I was the one. I babbled on about things far beyond me, made small talk about wonders way over my head.
You told me, 'Listen, and let me do the talking. Let me ask the questions. You give the answers. I admit I once lived by rumors of you; now I have it all firsthand—from my own eyes and ears, I'm sorry—forgive me. I'll never do that again, I promise! I'll never again live on crusts of hearsay, crumbs of rumor."

Is it possible that without a true understanding of who the center of our universe is, much like what unfolded in Galileo’s or Copernicus’ day debunking the long held belief that the universe revolved around the earth, rather than it revolving around the sun, although saved, we move out of sync with the truth?
A clouded mind (no matter how insightful one thinks they are), sees nothing.
If our center in being re-birthed has not become observable (knowable) to us in everything pertaining to us in further “knowing Him,” is it any wonder that “Christianity” is seen as just another of the vast menu options displayed on the buffet of religions already long established?

I am seeing that perhaps the reason there is such blurred, distorted perceptions within Christianity is because of not allowing God the Father to renew our thinking based upon a surgical operation he successfully accomplished in the heart of everyone he has received into His family, by joining us to Himself. “He that is joined to the Lord IS one spirit.”
One would think this ability to accurately see would be the norm now that we are no longer of the world, only in it, but sadly we are misguided and there still resides within us such great and undetected ignorance!
The continued transformation our lives coming into sync with our true center is not happening by osmosis, it is no less than His grace going beyond merely saving our spirit, this work of grace is being fought, contested every step we take. There has been designed by God imprinted as it were into our spiritual DNA a longing for the truth of who’s we are to be unmistakably seen among our fellow human beings.

It is very important to see how our dear brother Paul was being lead into such profound and liberating clarity of inner sight by the spirit of truth wherein he saw this. Read here, and here.
It is only in Him making the truth known to us individually that we will ever walk freely with Him and with the body, into so much more he has hidden for us to discover out of the overflow of this divine and sacred romance of the ages.

Hearing this message of life is great, but seeing it walked out relationally is the longing-cry within our hearts why, because He’s put it there, let’s be those living patterns-examples to those who have only heard the “Good News.”


What are your thoughts?


Lennart said...

Rich, I do hope I am understanding the content of you thoughts.
Isn't it amazing that we are 'dead' and Christ lives in us but 'we' continue to make everyday and life changing decisions about our lives and future based in our mind and body experiences instead of just asking the Holy Spirit. We seem to discard the fact that our experiences are mostly blurred and distorted by our inadequate and incorrect human perceptions.

It really is so much easier when you develope that trust and dependence on Jesus and you can wake up in the moring and say "Good morning Holy Spirit, what shall WE wear today". Don't be too shocked if you get an answer! The other option is to do as Dr John G.Lake and look in the mirror everyday and say "In this suite of clothes live God and where this suit of clothes goes, God goes"


Lennart said...


I must take you up on this one thought you make. My purpose is to understand you comment and not a crit.

You said "....not allowing God the Father to renew our thinking based upon a surgical operation he successfully accomplished in the heart of everyone he has received into His family, by joining us to Himself. “He that is joined to the Lord IS one spirit.”

My understand is that we DIE spiritually and are raised as NEW spiritual beings. A totally ne re-created spirit. Thats me! The only common part between the old me and the new me is my mind and body.

Is that what you meant by "surgical operation"?

Hope so.

Free Spirit said...

first thing that comes to mind is a quote I love. Don't know who said it, but it goes... "A man with a theory is never at the mercy of a man with an experience."

For me, that's the grand difference... theory (hearing) vs. experience (seeing)

In the end, they're like night and day.

Rich said...

Free Spirit,

What came to mind in reading your comments here is according to a book by Peter Marshall I think it was, forget the name of it, something to do with Glory, shared how from what he had read somewhere that Christopher Columbus having been told by the supreme authority of that day, the Pope-Catholic Church, that the world, she was-a flat like a pancake…ha- Marshall goes on to say that Chris was in fact guided to the “New World” via God the Holy Spirit’s direction!

Rich said...


I appreciate your contribution here very much.

Learning experientially that our God and Father IS spirit and that we as well ARE spirit, and in the now of living in this space, time continuum we are spiritual beings having a “human experience”~Ha!!

Rich said...


I hope this isn’t one of my wild and crazy rabbit trails I’m off on here trying to respond to your questions?
First off I want to say I welcome your wanting to Know the Truth, isn’t it wonderful to know that the Truth is unobservable or not fully comprehensible apart from Christ Jesus, the “Truth-Life and Way?”

The blurred, distorted perceptions rampant in the body are in my opinion because of not seeing the center of our spiritual universe, Christ the SON, as we are being brought into a right “orbit” revolving around the Son, these distorted-blurred perceptions will lift much like the fog being melted by the heat of the sun-Son-Ha!!

On another thought here, on the day of Pentecost although the promise of the Father came to bring the spirit of Christ into what became the church, this remained although re-birthed (saved-born-again) a “Jewish Boy’s Club.”
For conversation sake, I love what the scriptures clearly point out, that “And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts 11:26).

It is my understanding that it took the Father receiving to Himself one Saul of Tarsus, a murder, one who “persecuted” Christ himself and transforming him into our dear brother Paul, the Apostle of Grace and graced him to bring to light what it truly meant to be a Christ-One!!
It wasn’t that these born-again Jews weren’t born-again-re-birthed, no, not at all, but they did not know yet what the Father wanted to make known (reveal) to them through our brother Paul.

All of our ethnicity has been (surgically) removed in the circumcision of our hearts, but until revelation is forth coming, we continue to live out of what is no longer a part of our true center-Christ.
If any man (person) be in Christ, he (they) are a whole new creation, the old has passed away, behold New things have come!
I love this especially, “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”

Our humanity is now in the process of coming into alignment to our center Christ, just as He and God the Father was plainly seen through His humanity, talk about a growing curve-wow!

I hope I haven’t fried your brain-ha!

Lennart said...

Thanks Rich. I love that verse you quoted, “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”

In a simple mans language, "If you judge me according to my body, YOU're the wally!


Free Spirit said...

Hey, rich, in re-reading my comment, I'd say hearing and seeing (with physical eyes) are both a part of theory.

I think experience results in KNOWING.